You will choose ONE to which you’d like to respond (250 words). Each prompt will have its own post and comment section. (Comments can be made on either prompt and are not limited to the one you chose for your initial response.)
#2
Pick a single recurring element and track its effect through "Under the Ridge," "A Natural History of the Dead," and/or "Nobody Ever Dies."
Thursday, July 15, 2010
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A common element within Ernest Hemmingway’s short stories ‘Under the Ridge’, ‘Nobody Ever Dies’, and ‘A Natural History of the Dead’ is the effects of death. In ‘Under the Ridge’, Hemingway examines his own experiences of a death that the observer feels is underserved by the victim. In this story, Hemingway writes about watching a French deserter get executed for desertion, without a trial, after a battle in World War I. This shocks Hemingway, but what apparently shocks him even more than that is the Extramaduran tells him of the brutal execution of Paco. The effect of witnessing this event is also evident in the behavior of the other soldiers. This has shocked them so badly that they do not even want to talk about it.
In ‘A Natural History of the Dead’, Hemingway examines the physical appearances of death, as well as the results that the death of a comrade has on people. Hemingway describes the various methods by which people die. He describes how usually only males are found amongst the dead during a war, and how it shocked him when he came across a woman who had died in an explosion. He also speaks of how the flesh of the dead will change colors as it is left on the battlefield, and how they will swell and expand post mortem. As for the effects of the death of a comrade, Hemingway relates how he once saw an artillery officer come close to insubordination to keep his comrade from dying out in the snow.
Through the events in ‘Nobody Ever Dies’, Hemingway shows how people react to the death of a loved one. He shows that Maria, when she is in danger of being captured by the police, turns to her loved ones who have died to protect her. She still holds on to the belief that they are still there, rather simply accept that they are gone.
A common element that is in all three of Ernest Hemingway's short stories, "The Natural History of the Dead", "Under the Ridge", and "Nobody Ever Dies" is the presence of war. In "The Natural History of the Dead", war's relation with death is brought up many times, but one description that is interesting is that "war in the mountains is the most beautiful of all war" (Hemingway 339). Hemingway is able to intrigue the reader with the juxtaposition of the words, war is beautiful. This idea is not common philosophy; war is painful, brutal, and harsh. Hemngway is able to find something redeeming about war that is usually overlooked. In "Under the Ridge" Hemingway's philosophy on war is demonstrated when a solider in a trench believes that, "'in battle there is much thirst even when there is no fear'" (461). Hemingway exhibits that in war the soldiers do not always fear for their own lives, but they want something more than that. They have the want to accomplish something other than just surviving. That is an idea that is not usually present in literature about war. Hemingway discusses war yet again in "Nobody Ever Dies". Maria questions why men should die in the failures of a war that does not involve their home, and a philosophy about war is displayed when Enrique responds that, "'where you die does not matter, if you die for liberty'" (475). This exhibits that if you believe in what you are doing that if you die it is alright. Many of Hemingway's short stories show the influence of war, and these short stories do not differ in that aspect.
In “A Natural History of the Dead”, “Under the Ridge” and “Nobody Ever Dies”, obedience in times of necessity is stressed throughout the plots. The main characters are shown that obedience is important and anything that threatens that full obedience needs to be terminated. In the first story, disobedience led to one thing; “the doctor tossed the saucer full of iodine in his face” (Hemingway 341). He was blinded because he refused to listen to his superior officer over a matter that was “a dispute about nothing” (341). This stresses that in times of war obedience should be demanded in order to protect scarce resources. In the second story, the conversation gets deeper when the main character states “without discipline, everyone will die anyway” (466). This is stated after the “battle police” have punished the runaway soldier (466). However, this sort of discipline is shown to be barbaric when the example of Paco is given and described as “very brutal” (467). This event forces us to think of our own mentality when it comes to the armed forces that learn to think as a group not as an individual. An example of this is the firing of McChrystal, which stresses obedience over all. Even Maria is punished, in the third short story, for not obeying Enrique immediately. He slaps her once when she reaches for his pistol and again when she asks to go with him, a move that would have killed her (477-478). So while brutality is discouraged, obedience is important in times of crisis.
In Ernest Hemingway’s short stories “Under the Ridge”, “Nobody Ever Dies”, and “A Natural History of the Dead”, discipline and obedience are demanded in times of difficult situations. This theme is ever-present throughout each of Hemingway’s short stories. In “Under the Ridge” it is clearly stated that “in war, it is necessary to have discipline” (Hemingway 466). This statement is taken very seriously by all of the soldiers, particularly referring to Paco’s situation. Paco was a young boy who was so frightened and afraid that “he shot himself in the hand so that he could leave the line” (466). Because Paco’s actions were the polar opposite of discipline, the soldiers felt “Paco must be punished as an example” and therefore, he was executed (467). The same theme emerges in “Nobody Ever Dies.” While trying to escape the Cuban police, Maria insists that she stay with Enrique. However, he feels it is necessary to go separate ways. When she refuses and draws her pistol to protect him,“he slap[s] her face” (477). Still reluctant to leave him, she ignores him and he “slap[s] her again quickly” (478). This proves Hemingway’s theme yet again that obedience is demanded in stressful situations. This theme is present in “A Natural History of the Dead” as well. The story concludes with several soldiers arguing with a doctor to put a soldier out of his misery. The doctor quickly becomes defensive and retorts, “Who are you to ask me questions…” (340). Becoming irritated and frustrated, the doctor proceeds to “toss the saucer full of iodine in [the lieutenant’s face” (341). The doctor asserts himself in command and punishes the lieutenant for questioning his judgment. This continues to illustrate Hemingway’s recurring theme that obedience and discipline are expected and anyone who fails to exemplify these traits will be punished.
An element that is present in, “Under the Ridge”, “A Natural History of the Dead”, and “Nobody Ever Dies” is the conflict between human emotion and duty. In the “A Natural History of the Dead”, a conflict between the Captain Doctor and an artillery officer sparks, and ends with more casualties. The artillery officer appalled by the doctor’s lack of care ends up attacking the doctor who is trying to conserve morphine in order to perform his duty and continues to operate, and he becomes temporarily blinded by the doctor’s retaliation. In “Under the Ridge” the conflict is between the emotions of the Extremaduran and the actions taken by the Russian. For Paco’s attempt at self injury, “one held Paco by the arm… the other took his pistol out and shot Paco in the back of the head without any word to Paco. Nor any word more.” (467). The Russians brutal action scarred the Extremaduran and led him to hate all foreigners. This is revealed by not only his rude behavior towards the foreigners, but also because he does not hide it. After the story, he says, “It is for this that I now hate Russians as well as all other foreigners” (468). In “Nobody Ever Dies”, there is a conflict between, Maria’s emotion and the Negro’s duty of informing the Cubans on their where abouts. Maria’s courage affected the Negro that, “The Negro was frightened… because he was up against an older magic now” (481). In the three short stories, the conflict between emotion and duty is present.
An element that is present in, “Under the Ridge”, “A Natural History of the Dead”, and “Nobody Ever Dies” is the conflict between human emotion and duty. In the “A Natural History of the Dead”, a conflict between the Captain Doctor and an artillery officer sparks, and ends with more casualties. The artillery officer appalled by the doctor’s lack of care ends up attacking the doctor who is trying to conserve morphine in order to perform his duty and continues to operate, and he becomes temporarily blinded by the doctor’s retaliation. In “Under the Ridge” the conflict is between the emotions of the Extremaduran and the actions taken by the Russian. For Paco’s attempt at self injury, “one held Paco by the arm… the other took his pistol out and shot Paco in the back of the head without any word to Paco. Nor any word more.” (467). The Russians brutal action scarred the Extremaduran and led him to hate all foreigners. This is revealed by not only his rude behavior towards the foreigners, but also because he does not hide it. After the story, he says, “It is for this that I now hate Russians as well as all other foreigners” (468). In “Nobody Ever Dies”, there is a conflict between, Maria’s emotion and the Negro’s duty of informing the Cubans on their where abouts. Maria’s courage affected the Negro that, “The Negro was frightened… because he was up against an older magic now” (481). In the three short stories, the conflict between emotion and duty is present
One of the most prominent elements recurring through the stories “Under the Ridge,” and “A Natural History of the Dead,” is death. In the story, “Under the Ridge,” the element of death is vehemently exposed. Throughout the story the main character has numerous conversations with characters such as the Spanish soldiers, the Extremaduran, and the Frenchmen. Through his conversations with these other characters and their chatter amongst themselves we get the idea of death through a soldier's eyes. In addition to this we get further, perhaps more altruistic insight on the element of death from the subconscous thought processes of the main character. One example that encompasses this idea comes when the main character ponders about the Frenchman. He claims he “understood him as a man. But, as a soldier, these other men who policed the battle had hunted him down, and the death he had walked away from had found him.” (Hemingway 466). From this we can tell that the main character understands the Frenchman's reasons for deserting, but also understands why the man must die. This indifference towards the preservation of life shows the overwhelming effect death has, especially towards soldiers. In the story, “A Natural History of the Dead,” death is a frequently occuring element. The narrator of the story has a very crass, yet organized way of describing death. There seems to be a clear indifference towards the notion of death as though the narrator has seen it time and time again. This is crude, but sensible. This seems very similar to the way the soldier in “Under the Ridge” sees death. However, this man seems like he is delving into the topic of death in order to accomplishment an intellectual goal.
“A Natural History of the Dead”, Under the Ridge”, and “Nobody Ever Dies” by Ernest Hemingway the common element that is the tragedy of death. In “A Natural History of the Dead” Hemingway presents the depiction that “regarding the sex of the dead it is a fact the one becomes so accustomed to the sight of all the dead being man that the sight of a dead woman is quit shocking”(Hemingway 336). This comes to play when Hemingway reveals his encounter arriving at the “scene of [a] disaster... finding [the] dead bodies [of] woman rather then men ”(336). Hemingway continues by stating that the brutality of death causes humans to die “like animals”(336). Going on he shows how death brings out “Under the Ridge” presents to us to a solder walking away from battle due to his own self want, but then being shot down because of his lack of disciple and courage. Next we are introduced to a young boy who has the self will to shot his own arm to the point where it has to be amputated so that he no longer has to stay and fight in the was. All though after the young man recovers he uses his one good arm to help out as much as he can. Even being so he is still killed to show that disciple must be enforced
“Nobody Ever Dies” presents that even after the death of Maria’s brother, and lover Enrique she still finds the strength to live on with out then being physically there, but they stay with her in her heart to help her get through the battle she is to face.
Initial responses end.
Comments are open.
Keep up the good work!
Hemingway’s short stories “Under the Ridge” and “A Natural History of the Dead” share a common element: the theme that the ability to disregard one’s own emotions and remain disciplined under all circumstances are necessary traits for soldiers in times of war. In “Under the Ridge”, the Frenchman that was killed by the two men in leather coats “had come walking out of the attack with great dignity and [was understood by the narrator] as a man”, but was shot anyways for his lack of discipline as a soldier (Hemingway 466). The reason the Frenchman walked out on the battle is not made clear, but whatever his reasoning might be, in order to stay alive he would have had to forgo his own emotions and conform to the standards of discipline, no matter how absurd, set for him and the other soldiers. In a way, the Frenchman, as well as the other soldiers, lost their right to and ability to act upon their emotions when they signed up for the war. As the narrator later asserts, “In war, it is necessary to have discipline” (466). The necessity of discipline in war is further portrayed in “A Natural History of the Dead”, through the brief dialogue at the end of the story. The dialogue occurs between a soldier and a doctor as they argue about how to treat a wounded soldier. When the argument gets heated, the doctor “tosse[s] the saucer full of iodine in [the soldier’s] face” (341). He further asserts his authority by stating, “I am the boss” and that “In time of war we dispute about nothing” (341). The doctor asserted his authority to discipline the soldier who dared to question him. Although the soldier might have had valid thoughts and ideas, the theme that discipline is required prevails over all else in war.
Kali, while I agree with your point about both "A Natural History of the Dead" and "Under the Ridge", I must politley disagree with your statement about discipline in "Nobody Ever Dies". In that situation, there is no matter of obediance, since it is not apparent whether or not Enrique is in charge of Maria. Nor is it a matter of discipline since, first of all, neither are soldiers, and, second, neither one of them behaves in a discpined manner.
Zach, since I also wrote about obedience I feel obligated to respond to your combat. First, Kali and I do not talk about combat times but times of necessity and stress. Therefore it is unnecessary that either Maria or Enrique be soldiers. Second, Enrique was most definately a soldier in some skirmish as he has been in many battles where he watched his friends die. Now we must take into account Spanish culture. Enrique is a man and Maria is a woman. Therefore, in the patriarchal Spanish society Enrique would immediately be above Maria. Also, because she has been in no wartime situations we can assume that Enrique feels the need to protect one who has not been exposed to combat. So obedience to superiors in times of necessity is stressed, just as Kali said.
Dear Martha,
While I agree that there is tragedy in death most of the short stories we read contradict that idea. In "A Natural History of the Dead" Hemingway's matter of fact, scientific tone reminds me of something found in a textbook. In "Nobody Ever Dies" Maria is given a sense of hope from Enrique's death. Even though many men died Maria was filled with a great inner strength. Neither of these stories strike me as showing tragedy from death. However, I do agree with you on "Under the Ridge". Why do you believe tragedy in the examples you used?
zoe
just because you have been in battles does not mean that you are a soldier. are gang members who get into firefights soldiers? and how is protecting someone below obediance to superiors?
Well, first off as I stated it is unnecessary that he be a soldier. Second off, the police are arresting him and shooting at him even though he did not fire first. He seems to be participating in a movement against the current government. At least, that is what I got out of it. Also any militant follower is a soldier by definition according to the merriam Webster dictionary. So since he has engaged in combat, has recieved orders from superiors, and is hiding out, I consider him a militant follower of his higher ups. In my last post I showed Enrique to be her superior because of his experience. Therefore, when she disobeys him and is disciplined because of it, it shows obedience is necessary in times of danger.
Zoe,
I couldn't have replied to Zach better myself. This may sound weird, but I thought it was really cool that we kind of talked about the same things. We did, however, use different examples though. That just makes me realize how deeply embedded the theme is in Hemingway's short stories.
Zoe,
I couldn't have replied to Zach better myself. This may sound weird, but I thought it was really cool that we kind of talked about the same things. We did, however, use different examples though. That just makes me realize how deeply embedded the theme is in Hemingway's short stories.
Martha- I really liked the examples you used from “A Natural History of the Dead”, because I think they also support another important theme different from the one you stated. It seems that a common theme in these stories by Hemingway is the theme that soldiers must dehumanize others in order to cope with tragedy. Your examples showed how one must become accustomed to seeing dead people, as they die “like animals”. This theme is also evident in “Under the Ridge” and “Nobody Ever Dies”, but I believe it is most obvious in “A Natural History if the Dead”.
Martha- I really liked the examples you used from “A Natural History of the Dead”, because I think they also support another important theme different from the one you stated. It seems that a common theme in these stories by Hemingway is the theme that soldiers must dehumanize others in order to cope with tragedy. Your examples showed how one must become accustomed to seeing dead people, as they die “like animals”. This theme is also evident in “Under the Ridge” and “Nobody Ever Dies”, but I believe it is most obvious in “A Natural History if the Dead”.
Martha- I really liked the examples you used from “A Natural History of the Dead”, because I think they also support another important theme different from the one you stated. It seems that a common theme in these stories by Hemingway is the theme that soldiers must dehumanize others in order to cope with tragedy. Your examples showed how one must become accustomed to seeing dead people, as they die “like animals”. This theme is also evident in “Under the Ridge” and “Nobody Ever Dies”, but I believe it is most obvious in “A Natural History if the Dead”.
Savanna i really like the way that you made your comment flow. By giving an example and going much deeper into the meaning you give support to you common element. Although the reason for why the solder left is not given, we can draw to conclusion that it had to do with some like of personal emotion that he was feeling. I also would like how you did your common element over the disciplined that we find in the story. over all I found your comment very delighting to read.
Aneres, I found it interesting your point about the conflict between human emotion and duty. I sort of noticed this element along the way, but after reading your response I looked back and saw it came up more often than I first realized. However, I also thought that even more important is the way the author portrayed Paco getting executed. The way the scene is written shows that this author has a negative view towards war and duty. Maybe not a strongly negative one, but at least slightly negative.
Zoe
I like how you talked about the line between obedience and how failure to obey should only be punished so far. I think this is very relevant in today's world when teens seem to be becoming more and more rebellious. Certainly, parents should expect obedience from their kids, but those kids may not think so. If they do disobey, how harsh may the punishment be? I also like how you included the real world reference to the firing of General McChrystal.
In "Under the Ridge" by Ernest Hemingway, the idea of fear is used to present many different philosophies and bring up points for the readers to think about for themselves. The first philosophy regarding fear is mentioned when one soldier says that "'Thirst is fear' 'No' said another. 'With fear there is thirst, always. But in battle there is much thirst even when there is no fear.' 'There is always fear in battle' said the first soldier"(Hemingway 461). The soldiers begin to vent their fear of battle by talking about what fear is. Later, a new type of fear arises. A xenophobe emerges from the group. He has no qualms about telling the other soldiers that "[He] hate[s] all foreigners"(462). The fact that he hates foreigners proves he is a xenophobe, which by definition is a person who fears a person of a different nationality. He never presents a reason for his fear of foreigners which forces the reader to think about his/her own feelings about foreigners and why they feel that way. Later, a soldier runs away from the battle. One may think that he did it simply because of fear, but Hemingway tells us that he in fact saw clearly the stupidity of dying in war. This means Hemingway is trying to show that he believes fear can have alternatives.
A recurring element in Ernest Hemingway’s “Under the Ridge”, “A Natural History of the Dead”, and “Nobody Ever Dies” is the theme of unnatural death. In “Under the Ridge, there is a perfect example of unnatural death. When Paco “shot himself in the hand so that he could leave the line because he was afraid” he was eventually taken to the exact spot in which he shot himself and “then, while the one held Paco by the arm…the other took his pistol out and shot Paco in the back of the head without any word to Paco” (466,467). Paco’s own comrades shot him in the back of the head with no warning at all. War is natural. It is human nature, but brutally executing your own countrymen is not natural. It is murder, and murder is in no way natural. In “A Natural History of the Dead”, there is not so much as an example of an unnatural death, but a lack of examples of natural deaths. Hemingway says, “The only natural death I’ve ever seen, outside the loss of blood, which isn’t bad, was death from Spanish influenza” (338). In “A Natural History of the Dead”, Hemingway describes a plethora of examples of unnatural deaths while giving Spanish influenza the only natural death he had ever seen. In “Nobody Ever Dies”, Enrique is trying to escape the police when he gets caught by a spotlight and then “the submachine guns opened on him from the darkened car” (478). Enrique was riddled with bullets even though “he only felt the first one” (478).
Zoew: I agree with you about the discipline in each of the short stories. If everyone had followed their directions and had not asked any questions, the lower ranking officer would not have a face full of iodine, Paco would not have lost his hand and eventually his life, and Maria would not have been slapped. The first two examples had worse consequences than Maria getting slapped, but it still pertains to your statement about discipline.
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